Manhunter 2 Banned

Lores · Unread post by **Lores** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:42 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leic ... 767623.stm

I say well done. Thier should be some limitation.

Toucan · Unread post by **Toucan** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:58 am

fuck off are you serious?

i'm 31, i should be able to chose what i buy
i cant buy this game, but i can walk into the local porno shop and buy a dvd of a chick getting 3 cocks uip her arse at once whilst another dude shits in her mouth (probably)

the games have ratings

if parents cant control their kids fromplaying these games, then the fault is with them
give it an 18
for some old fart in a suit somewhere to decree that the british public is not allowed to buy this is verging on nazi-ism

this games being picked on, as a few years back the original manhunt was blamed for a kid killing someone

Lores · Unread post by **Lores** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:29 am

Well, I am serious that the game was banned in England and Ireland. I hope that your post isnt perceived to be nearly as rude on your side of the Atlantic.

Toucan · Unread post by **Toucan** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:32 am

rude?
rude dirty, not rude to be offensive (hopefully)

nah it is banned

i was more saying are you serious to you agree with it

Molten Prominence · Unread post by **Molten Prominence** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:01 pm

It should and hopefully will be appealed and overturned.

Sadism and bloody murders?? Has anyone seen the movie Saw or its sequels? Maybe we should ban all violence in movies as well while we're at it.

Nintendo came out in the 80's..These kids are now adult.....adults play video games....we should be able to play adult games.

I've never seen or played the game, but after reading that...now I want to.

Steelrayne · Unread post by **Steelrayne** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:25 pm

ahh the joys of videogame news, this report like so many others is so full of one sided BS that I getd to get out the thigh highs. ok, whom all here has played Grand Theft Auto San Andreas? ok now how many of you had to run right out and pop a cap in someones ass or steal a car? none? wow suprising especally since the assoceation here is with the games causing people to be violent. Now, how many of you read the reports on GTA:SA? lots of talk about hookers, killings, stealing, working with organised crime ...... sure in the game, but not actually part of the story line, cripes, CJ that character from that game was just a ex con trying to get his life back together, but he got framed by the cops and when he returned to his dead mothers home he found it filled with a bunch of sturng out crackheads, and cleaning up your old neborhood was a huge part of the game. Bully, also by rockstar games also had the same problem, the name screamed "teaches you how to be a bully" yet the actual content of the game was "kicking the shit out of the bullys " hell you spend half the game protecting the nerds from the jocks lol. but more to the point of Manhunt, for those of you whm havnt played it the story was pretty simple, your character is a hard time con who was suspost to be put on death row for a crime he didnt commit, the "execution" was carried out and for some strange reason you awoke to find yourself in a big maze run by some sicko who makes snuff films. and he is like "here you go, gind your way out of the maze and you can be free to return to your famile, refuse and we kill your family... oh and one more thing, the maze if full os shitheads trying to kill you for fun." so, you have to sneak around and find your way out of the maze *shrugs* pretty simple, and actually in manhunt you can stealth your way through the whole game with less than 3 kills total *snickers* I dont think even solid snake can pull that off

anyhow sorry about the bazarr rant I just hate misrepresentation in the things we all enjoy. and remember that everyone finds there deamons, it used to be D&D then Rock and Roll ... now VIdeo games? come on, dont slip into that old rut. I fully agree, if you dont like somthing then dont support it, but I'll be damned if one selece group of people should be able to say that I cant play a game just because they dont like it *snickers*

*babbels contently from her pearch upon her soapbox*

~Steel

Anach · Unread post by **Anach** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:22 pm

There are a couple issues that come to mind when it comes to computer games.

a) Many people still consider Computer games as the domain of children and many parents still arent aware they need to prevent their children to access certain gaming material, the same as they would with Toucans extreme image of 3 dick porn, certain music or reading material.

b) Computer games are interactive. So even though in a movie we might see worse (real people), you are only watching, not the one acting out these scenarios like you are in a computer game. Although I dont consider either to be worse, many might do.

c) In Aus, there is not yet an adult rating for computer games. Which in itself proves point A.

I do agree with Toucan, that the ratings for computer games are a little hypocritical in that we can buy movies which are several degrees worse, but need someone else to decide if we are allowed to play certain games simply because of a vote in the censorship department from people who still think of games as point A.

The restrictions should be on the people selling them. Not allowing adult games to be sold to minors, just like their movie counterparts and giving better warning on the cases. Or in Australia's case, there should be an adult rating.

As far as being able to watch something and not go off on a murderous rampage, well I dont think it matters if its a book, game, movie, music or puppet show, certain people are just insane and will do this no matter what media types they look at. Over the years all of these media types have been blamed, by various groups, for inciting this behavious. Now its computer games turn.

So essentially its the censors failure to recognise games as an adult medium, that is allowing one set of rules for games and one set of rules for everything else.

gelfling · Unread post by **gelfling** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:09 pm

In my view, there ARE certain things should not be portrayed in any medium. That is, they should never see the light of day let alone find their way to a censor.

From what I've read about Manhunt 2, I agree with this particular ban. The first game was controversial but from what I understand, it is not in the same league as the sequel, which we are discussing here. The original was cited as having been behind the murder of a young teenage boy The censor makes his reasons clear here:

David Cooke, director of the BBFC, said: "Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone.

"There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game."

There have also been some nasty stalking cases in the UK recently and people who have experienced it are trying to change the law to protect people. Should Manhunt 2 have been banned? I don't know. I haven't played it and no one here has said they have played it either. At the very least it should have been given an 18 or R rated certificate BUT...

Now as far as why a game should be handled differently to the type of violent pr0n that Toucan mentioned (yikes I WISH you hadn't gone as far as to lay that out Touc because that will give me nightmares and I almost missed your point)... I think the answer lies in Istik's reply.

The UK has had classifications on games just as other countries have on films and has done for years. Having worked in a computer game store in the past and as someone who still knows people who do, I can tell you that parents do not check computer games unless they've come in with very little kids. I think it's fair to make a sweeping generalisation and say that a lot of parents wouldn't even know what the hell their kids are looking at on the Internet let alone what kind of game they're playing unless they happened to walk in before their pride and joy had been able to hit the old ALT-TAB.

Now, Old Bastards like us, who grew up playing games WOULD check (or ought to check) because we know what sort of games are out there. But the rest just don't have a clue. The censors are there to protect the clueless parents out there and to protect the rest from the lunatics. Until enough parents out there can demonstrate that they've left their witless ways behind games will continue to be banned. Should we be cross with the censors? No. Should we be cross with the parents who let their kids play anything? Yes.

A'Ton Sands · Unread post by **A'Ton Sands** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:10 pm

I'll add my two penith worth here.

I'm anti banning always have been.

I will say I have no interest in playing the game and from what I hear it should have an adult rating, but banning, whats the point?

There are a couple of points here, first:

There is NO evidence that games can make 'normaly' adjusted people into sociopaths, now as to people with personality disorders, well they already have problems and society really cant operate on the basis of what might disturb people with those sort of problems it could be anything.

Second: its pointless, how hard does one think it will be to get hold of the game? Not hard at all. In fact all they have done is given the game free publicity and now there will be people who will play the game out of curiosity

Toucan · Unread post by **Toucan** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:57 pm

as for the murdered boy, not to be nasty or heartless but hell mend the parents

they are the ones blaming the game, not the police, or the court

they are the ones that let a 14 year old and a 16 year old play an "18" rated game

and yes my example wa a little graphic, sorry if it's offensive, but thats the point

Anach · Unread post by **Anach** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:09 pm

Indeed A'ton. I didnt even know the game existed until the article. Now I have to look at it to see what the fuss is about. Its also bound to be really popular everywhere now.

The better alternative would be to fix the classifications and educated the population that games arent all for kids. Make sure the parents realise they need to check games as much as they do porn or otherwise.

A'Ton Sands · Unread post by **A'Ton Sands** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:44 pm

The issues here are much deeper than a game, its about parenting.

In the end it comes down to the education of parents in parenting.

How many parents would know what the signs are of potentially serious psychological problems in their offspring, to many take the attitude that its a 'Phase" they are going through, well sometimes yes it is, other times it is not and help is needed.

But unless they have been taught (in the old days it would be the extended family) they don't stand much of a chance.

You have the problem of proximity, many of these problems appear gradually and because of the proximity of the parent it can be very difficult to spot, an outsider would see the problem instantly but telling the parent would seem like criticism of the parent.

Something that would help is schools teaching teenagers about parenting properly, not just an half hour session once in the school year.

It might even cut down on teenage pregnancy if teens had some idea of how very hard parenting is (and no, looking after a chicken egg for a week does not do the job).

gelfling · Unread post by **gelfling** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:36 pm

Everyone's making good and very valid points here - especially A'ton who I agree with.

Of course, it hardly needs stating that it is not just about parenting but about educating people before they become parents. We ALL need to be responsible and parents most of all.

Retailers can go a long way towards supporting the classification system. It really does not take much to ask 'Bob and Sue Computer-noob' "Are you buying this for yourself or for your kids? For your kids? Cool. Are they over 18? Okay. Well, you do realise that this game is certified for 18 and over because it contains 'sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game'?"

I went out to buy a game from EB just a few weeks ago. I was asked if I knew it was an MMO, if I had a credit card, did I have Internet access etc. etc. It was amusing for us especially as the sales rep knew less about MMO gaming than we did but the point is that he took the time to make sure this was a game we could actually play and hopefully enjoy beyond the first 30 days. It didn't take much for him to ask me that question and it wouldn't take much for him to ask me if I knew what sort of gaming experience Manhunt 2 or whatever game I was buying, contains.

Just the same as it doesn't take a lot of effort for a parent to ask the retailer, or get onto the Internet themselves, or ask their peers what this game we're discussing or any other game, is actually like. If only we could trust that they will do that. Perhaps the debate that has arisen from the banning of this game will bring about the regular parenting classes that A'ton suggests. Personally, I think it would be good if these were offered to all new parents of all ages.

Lores · Unread post by **Lores** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:55 pm

What if I as a parent do all the right things but the kids down the street parents dont? How hard was it to get alcohol and drugs as a kid? How hard was it to get porn?

Now it's even easier.

When I was a kid my dad gave us the gun lecture. Dad kept his gun under lock and key. But my friends dad kept a few guns in his gun cabinet unlocked. So of course we played with them. Ever see Deer Hunter?

Isnt this game coming out for the Wii? So not only do you play the game but you also act out the murder. That training would have been helpful before I join the military.

Thought this was an interesting article to further support my position about parenting: http://wcbstv.com/seenon/local_story_171170917.html

I think it's a debate that society should have but in the end I think that it ought not be banned, it should be rated adult, it should be kept behind the counter at EB and all patrons should be carded to purchase.

eirykhi · Unread post by **eirykhi** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:13 pm

u all know that in the us u get a goverment id or state drivers lisens . if u look young can u go in to a stoor and buy a case of beer NO. y u need an ID showing u are 21 cant thaY DO THE SAME WITH GAMES YES . its not hard to do (can i see your ID O u dont have one gess u cant buy the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Toucan · Unread post by **Toucan** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:57 pm

dav4flynn wrote:
When I was a kid my dad gave us the gun lecture. Dad kept his gun under lock and key. But my friends dad kept a few guns in his gun cabinet unlocked.

that to me is scarier

"the gun lecture" as if most american kids get that lecture because most american houses have guns

i know one person with a gun
my uncle, and he's in the police armed response unit

obviously they are taking care buy lecturing the kids, thats good
but if you have kids, you probably shouldn't have guns in the house at all

back to the game and censorship

the bbfc's job should be to rate the game in the original form it was presented to them
they have no right making changes or banning
they rate the game and put it out there
put a description on the box like most dvd's have nowadays
(for example my casino royale dvd says: cert 12 - contains one scene of toture and strong action violence)
stores use age id checking to sell it, like thety dow with dvd's
and if parents chose to let their kids play it, then it is the parents responibility

what this doesn is take away our basic right to chose

Lores · Unread post by **Lores** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:27 am

Im not sure most US homes have guns but thier are more guns then adults. I have a couple that I used during my time in the service as in my command it was "cool" to bring your own exotic weapons in country. At the time the standard issue pistol was the Berretta 92fs which was known to have a problems after several thousand shots. All the "cool" guys purchased Sig Sauers P226's.

On a side note.... The USA 2nd ammendment is the one which states something like, no laws shall be written to impead the right to keep and bear arms.... Was written into our bill of rights in 1785( I believe)to ensure that the people would be able to kill the soldier of an unreasonable government. This is a direct result of the war against English aggression(j/k) aka the American Revolutionary War. The founding fathers wanted to make sure that our government never became facist.

In modern times the 2nd amendment could arguably be out of step but the gun lobby is far too powerful.

Interestingly, the founding fathers, people like Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Franklin were all highly educated Englishmen. They concidered themselves to be extremely English and loyal subjects of the king. None would concider themselves "Yanks" which is a derivative of a dutch word meaning "hick" or uneducated. It was a deeply troubling and morally difficult deceision for each of them to support the revoltution.

Sorry for the tangent. Ive been taking a renewed interest in English/American history.

Molten Prominence · Unread post by **Molten Prominence** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:39 am

The problem lies w/ games being classified as for children. The bottom line is: If society is going to allow violent, graphic, and pornographic media...then they have no argument to ban the same type of games.

But because parents are not educated enough or just reckless; kids are still playing these games even though they are identified as Mature gaming.

I was trying to think of a solution to this an even tough its probably nonsensical, this was the only thing I could think of:

Since kids can buy games, get an adult to buy it for them, have their dumb parent buy it, or play it at a friends house...maybe they should make it where these types of games can only be played on a "graphic console." So adults who want these games can buy this console. This type of console would be widely known to be geared towards adults and parents could confidently buy a different console knowing no violent games could be played on them.

But a problem w/ this is $$$. For the adult that buys it and the company's that would make it. Also then there is cpu games.

Only other thing would be a "censorship chip" that prevents violent games and is ingrained in the console so that smart kids cant retrieve it. This is much more practical and im sure its feasible.

There has to be some kind of technical solution to this because we all know giving a game a rating is not going to prevent them from playing it. It wouldnt have stopped me.

Anach · Unread post by **Anach** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:08 am

Having a parental lock which allows only games of a certain rating to be played is a good idea. There will always be some parents who dont care.

Toucan · Unread post by **Toucan** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:09 am

Molten Prominence wrote:
Only other thing would be a "censorship chip" that prevents violent games and is ingrained in the console so that smart kids cant retrieve it. This is much more practical and im sure its feasible.

you can set dvd players with parental controls so they only play certain certificate movies

and i know the ps2 had this feature as well
so if it can be put on a dvd, why not a game?

A'Ton Sands · Unread post by **A'Ton Sands** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:32 am

Toucan wrote:
Molten Prominence wrote:
Only other thing would be a "censorship chip" that prevents violent games and is ingrained in the console so that smart kids cant retrieve it. This is much more practical and im sure its feasible.

you can set dvd players with parental controls so they only play certain certificate movies

and i know the ps2 had this feature as well
so if it can be put on a dvd, why not a game?

Why not indeed.

Lores · Unread post by **Lores** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:07 am

I think the fat lady just sang:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070621/tc_ ... W_gGYE1vAI

Anach · Unread post by **Anach** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:34 pm

It was bound to happen, otherwise they are losing out on a large market.

Toucan · Unread post by **Toucan** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:02 am

on a similar not, i let my 6 year old step brother play "dead rising" on the xbox today

it's basically dawn of the dead

you're stuck in a shopping centre for 3 day with zombies everywhere
he was howling with laughter as he ran the lawnmower into a gathering crowd of the undead. again and again and again

Molten Prominence · Unread post by **Molten Prominence** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:59 am

Cool.

Just dont let him mow your lawn!

gelfling · Unread post by **gelfling** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:06 am

Shaun Of The Dead > Dawn Of The Dead